DEBATE: Do Progressive Ed Programs Work? Restorative Justice, Critical Race Theory, Equity, SEL, DEI

We live in a time when everyone knows their rights but none of their responsibilities.

I appreciate this conversation but must admit — I am in complete awe of his inability (or refusal) to understand your points. He danced around many of your questions and didn’t actually address the very legitimate points you brought up. This was also my issue in professional developments about equity in Education. I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that children deserve access to quality education, and that being culturally responsive helps to build rapport in the classroom. But it can't be all on the teachers to "fix" the system. So I agree with him when he says teachers have taken on the burden of the parents. And you know what? This shouldn't be expected. Parenting still matters! Educational stakeholders having a shared vision and being willing to partner with each other still matters. There is a huge difference between coddling/making excuses for kids because of their race and actually being equitable. Most of these ideologues lean toward the former, which is harmful and destructive. As a black teacher – and oftentimes the lone black teacher in my department—I was expected to go along with progressive ideologies simply because of my skin color. When I brought up the exact same points as you, I would get blank stares. When our DEI Director compared the grades of our white students to our black students, he was adamant that race was the lone factor. When I mentioned the notion of values (I also noted how my Nigerian and South Asian students tended to perform better than my black AND white students), he literally rolled his eyes and ignored me. On the one hand, he insisted on having “courageous conversations”, but when it came time to have such courageous conversations—which includes addressing different reasons for academic disparities—he wouldn’t do it. There appears to be a clear agenda here. The binary thinking and unwillingness to explore other perspectives is extremely unproductive. I tried to create a culture of learning and excellence in my classroom. I kept my standards high and guided my students along the way. I incorporated SEL into my lessons and built relationships, but never coddled them. While I often dealt with pushback from parents & admin because I was seen as “too strict” and a “tough grader,” I can’t tell you the number of students who have reached out over the years and thanked me for having structure and high expectations in my class. They are seeing the results now that they’ve graduated. I tried to provide my kids with tools and habits to be successful beyond my classroom. The reality is that to be successful, you need someone calling you to a higher standard. Those that do are showing how much they care about you and BELIEVE in you. I loved and believed in my students enough to not lower the bar. I wanted them to value education and learn to have a growth mindset. I wanted them to know they are victors, not victims. Listen, my grandparents were born in the 1920s under Jim Crow and experienced despicable racism. Both of my grandfathers picked cotton and only had an 8th grade education. Both of my grandmothers got pregnant at 16. Neither one of my parents went to college and they each worked two jobs to put us through private school, as the public schools in our zip code were abysmal. I am the first in my family to go to college, get a masters degree, and enroll in a PhD program. It was not easy. And you know what my grandparents and parents would always tell us? Excuses will get you nowhere. The world isn’t fair and doesn’t owe you anything. The past cannot be changed. It’s on you to take personal responsibility and make a better life for yourself. Pay attention in school and be willing to accept the wisdom from your elders. Don’t shy away from hard work, learning from your mistakes, and learning from others. Carry yourself with grace and dignity. Having self-respect, self-discipline, a moral compass, and integrity should be among your core values. I attribute all of my success to these life lessons and my family’s continuous reminders. If I had grown up with adults who coddled me, constantly made excuses for me and insisted I was oppressed, I wouldn’t be the woman I am today. Again, values and mindset matter. People have to be willing to look at the other factors that are causing the disparities in Education. The breakdown of the nuclear family is a factor. The lack of accountability is a factor. The lack of personal responsibility is a factor. Not valuing education is a factor. The addiction to technology is a factor. If ideologues and administrators are not willing to admit this, then the Education system is going nowhere fast. Society will continue to go downhill.

The more I listen the more I can’t take him seriously. I’m sorry. But this is exactly what is wrong today. What is not debatable is that children deserve to be heard, they deserve a safe space, the deserve chances. However there’s a line between showing grace and condoning blatant disrespectful behaviors and attitudes. The world will not put up with it. We are preparing kids for the real world.

Trish smoked this guy. She brought facts and logic. He avoided all of her questions. Emotions and rambling do not win debates.

Trish, I admire your patience! You let your guest go on and on without interrupting even when he was making no sense! You are a true professional and modeled the respect and grace he kept bringing up. This right here shows why so many of us teachers follow and support you. We KNOW what actual respect looks like.

I lost respect for him when he said his students didn’t listen to him so he put on a movie. Those kids just learned that they get to watch a movie if they don’t listen to him

33:26 "I don't see things getting better with a lot of the new ideologies and the new pushes. I see things getting worse, because I think at the end of the day, you know, students need to know how to respect the teacher; they need to know how to follow directions; they need to know how to cope when a lesson is boring (that was most of our college experiences); they need to know how to read literature that maybe is outside of their culture, maybe it is from a different time period." I feel like there was never a real answer to this in the conversation, and it's the core issue for me too. I don't disagree with "we need to keep fighting," but that's not a longterm solution. I'm going to be honest, I personally feel like I can "keep fighting" for another year or two before I become complacent; the problem isn't the ideals, it's the superhuman cognitive expectations that are being set on teachers to achieve those goals. We all want the same things, but admin isn't working with us, parents aren't working with us, kids aren't working on us. If we have all these extra programs nowadays, why do we all feel like we're completely on our own? And to be clear, I love Calvin's energy. He seems like a wonderful teacher to me, but I know myself and many others simply cannot muster that level of optimism day after day after day. Every person is different and, irregardless of what some educational policies would have you believe nowadays, teachers are still people. I have a limit before things are too much for me, just like we all do. The "they're just kids" rhetoric is not as valid as people think either, because maturity is not a light switch. Especially when you teach high school--am I supposed to look at my 16-18 year old students as "kids?" Because I don't. They _should_ be more mature than that by now, they should be aware of their actions by now. I don't expect for them to be the same as actual adults, but I do expect for them to know certain things about right and wrong and how to interact with the world. And if I taught elementry schoolers, I'd expect for a third grader to be able to say "please" when they ask for something. If I taught eighth grade, I'd expect for my students to be able to stay seated throughout the lesson. We've always had age-approrpiate expectations for "kids," except now we have no expectations for anyone. And guess what? The behavior you accept in your classroom is the behavior that you condone; if students see one student acting poorly and not recieve consequences, they're going to internalize that that's acceptable. Then my choices are either 1) stop all instruction for a half-hour _minimum_ to deal with things appropriately, or 2) try and get through instruction. Shocker, social-emotional learning is still learning. I can either teach your "kid" all the things you should've taught them at home, _or_ I can get them ready for next year's ciricumlum and beyond. I can't do both. I swear that's not me being hyperbolic, or stating that the two goals are antithetical to each other either; _quite literally, there is simply not enough time in the year for teachers to be half-counselors, half-teachers like they expect us to be nowadays._

As a very bad student in many ways I can say I always knew exactly what I was doing!!! These progressive teachers are doing the same thing all progressives do. Which is removing responsibility for bad behavior!!! Keep it up y’all!!! Let’s see how far these bad kids get in life! The only reason I made something of myself was because I got married at a young age to a very responsible girl. Kids today don’t have that option because finding responsibility is frowned upon!! Also anti racism is racism and evil! I hope parents stand up to this craziness!!

Hi friends! This interview turned out to be a bit different than usual! Calvin and I have very different philosophies, so we ended up having a spontaneous, friendly, informal debate instead of discussing the questions I had planned, but it was fun! I value nuance, and I enjoy talking to people with different beliefs! I also tend to avoid labels because they shut down conversations and stop us from learning from each other. I hope we modeled the ability to have respectful disagreements, and I ask that all comments remain respectful. I know race can be a polarizing topic, and I am totally fine if people disagree as long as they focus on challenging ideas instead of engaging in personal attacks. I also ask that people watch the whole video in order to understand each side more fully. With that said, please feel free to ask questions and share your thoughts, and if something I said was unclear I’d be happy to make a follow-up video! This is such a huge topic that we barely scratched the surface, so there is always room for more conversation! ❤

23 years is NOT a kid. We should train our kids for maturity and expect it so that when they reach 18-20 they can handle life. Victim mentality creates emotionally baby adults.

I'd like to see a video of his classroom. Talk is cheap.

Progressive education pushes way too much on the teacher. It’s exhausting and crazy making.

I appreciated the conversation but your guest came off as more of an ideologue than a practiced teacher.

I don't think he's too self reflective. He says he isn't religious, but social justice is clearly his religion.

Lol students and teachers are not equal. If so the kids would be able to govern themselves. We are held liable for a lot. There has to be some sort of authority. Mutual respect…yes.

No disrespect to your guest because he seems sincere and well-intentioned…but lord, I am TIRED of folks like him taking up all the air in the room in schools to demand that we remove all expectations for students. Then they go get their grad degrees and become administrators who frustrate the hell out of their staff with their unrealistic approaches.

I think progression educational policy works great in theory and academia, but not in practice

49:31 he just spoke over you when you tried to get a word in edgewise and I just suddenly felt such empathy for you Trish. This is NOT what you need after everything you’ve been through. This is more of the same. He’s subtly suggesting it’s you. It wasn’t you. I’m still glad you did this though because it’s clear to anyone watching that this guy is wrong. When he laughs maniacally about 40% of his kids being on the swings instead of doing the assignment I thought he might be insane

5 minutes in and I'm wondering about this person's ideas. Teachers and students aren't equals. As in yes equal as human beings but one position is not like the other. And he never answers the question of what is the student's responsibility?

I am with you all the way Trish! Accountability and responsibility is what's missing in our current educational system. We have to address the cultural issues that lead to low achievement. We also have to address school administrators that fail to facilitate environments that are conducive to learning. The only community that's inundated with this sensitivity CRAP are poor communities of color. Other communities know it is all about grit and accountability.